1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

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Harmattan1
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1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by Harmattan1 » Tue May 26, 2020 9:05 am

I just recently joined the Vamworld community although I have enjoyed the website for a number of years. There have been many hours I spent searching for Vams on this site to compare my own collection with or maybe a new discovery previously unknown.
I thought it would be appropriate to share a Vam I had the privilege of picking up not too long after I learned what Vams were. It is one of the rarest and highly coveted Vams and I count myself a very fortunate collector to actually have one. It is an 1878, 8 tailfeather Morgan Vam 9, one of the first Morgan dollars ever to be minted by the Philadelphia mint in 1878. I first did a comparison check of my Vam9 with the details on the Vam 9 page and all the indicators check out.
While I have been fortunate to have a Vam 9, unfortunately, someone permanently damaged this Morgan dollar before I obtained it from the seller I bought it from. Of all things anyone could ever do to a rare Morgan, they drilled a hole in it, probably to make a necklace out of it. Most likely they didnt even know what they had, how could they understand the significance of one of the first 300+ Morgan dollars ever minted in history. Unbelieveable!!!
Anyway, I took a couple pictures with my cell phone and figured it would be good to post them.
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DHalladay
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by DHalladay » Tue May 26, 2020 2:09 pm

Welcome! And thanks for sharing your VAM 9. It's a great looking coin except for the horrible OUCH!! that someone did to that coin. It's still a keeper, though.
When in doubt... don't.

Harmattan1
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Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:10 am

Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by Harmattan1 » Tue May 26, 2020 5:41 pm

Thanks for your reply. For me, this is the one that started it all. Its the reason why we have this website to go to. Based on the facts I have seen, it was in the presence of one of our past Presidents, Rutherford Hayes. He may have even handled it. Its a connection to our past, our history. It saddens me that someone drilled a hole in it. I cant imagine if they understood what it was there would be no way they would have put a hole in it.
I do have a question about it though.............I wonder if NGC would grade it with a details grade but at least label it with Vam 9? I would still have it sent in for that confirmation. Either way, thanks for the reply. I will be posting another coin in the next day or so, have a question or two about it.

T

DHalladay
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by DHalladay » Tue May 26, 2020 5:44 pm

Harmattan1 wrote: โ†‘
Tue May 26, 2020 5:41 pm
Thanks for your reply. For me, this is the one that started it all. Its the reason why we have this website to go to. Based on the facts I have seen, it was in the presence of one of our past Presidents, Rutherford Hayes. He may have even handled it. Its a connection to our past, our history. It saddens me that someone drilled a hole in it. I cant imagine if they understood what it was there would be no way they would have put a hole in it.
I do have a question about it though.............I wonder if NGC would grade it with a details grade but at least label it with Vam 9? I would still have it sent in for that confirmation. Either way, thanks for the reply. I will be posting another coin in the next day or so, have a question or two about it.

T

I am pretty confident that all 3 major grading companies, PCGS, NGC and ANACS, would grade it details and identify it as VAM 9. There are probably some folks here on the message boards who already have some similar coins in holders.
When in doubt... don't.

bobbyjenkins
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by bobbyjenkins » Tue May 26, 2020 5:56 pm

Congrats on the 78-P VAM-9, nice find, good job . It's a great piece, the hole can be repaired but it's still going to be a details coin which is okay for a rare piece of history. So now you you're part of "this thing of ours".

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messydesk
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by messydesk » Tue May 26, 2020 6:37 pm

Harmattan1 wrote: โ†‘
Tue May 26, 2020 5:41 pm
Thanks for your reply. For me, this is the one that started it all. Its the reason why we have this website to go to. Based on the facts I have seen, it was in the presence of one of our past Presidents, Rutherford Hayes. He may have even handled it. Its a connection to our past, our history. It saddens me that someone drilled a hole in it. I cant imagine if they understood what it was there would be no way they would have put a hole in it.
There's a good accounting of the first coins struck in the VAM book. Get one if you don't have one. While Hayes wasn't present at the first striking, the first coin was presented to him by the coiner. Apropos the care your coin was given, the Hayes specimen is harshly cleaned, and is at the Hayes museum in Fremont, OH.

Another thing to be aware of is that the 300 number that you will often see bandied about as the mintage for this variety is not correct. The first 300 coins were all VAM 9, but the mintage continued past this, and the total mintage of VAM 9 is probably closer to 8-10,000, which is still only about 10% of what they wanted to get from a die pair.
I do have a question about it though.............I wonder if NGC would grade it with a details grade but at least label it with Vam 9? I would still have it sent in for that confirmation. Either way, thanks for the reply. I will be posting another coin in the next day or so, have a question or two about it.
TPGs are funny about holed coins. It's one of the problems that doesn't necessarily make it into a holder. I would contact someone at your grading service of choice to get guidance. John Roberts (vampicker) might chime in about ANACS.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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CascadeChris
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by CascadeChris » Tue May 26, 2020 6:48 pm

Nice find! I've only cherrypicked 2, ever, and both were last year. The first was a raw one for $80 at Long Beach that now sits in a PCGS xf40 holder (Ill never sell it, you never sell your first VAM 9 Cherrypick. Ever ๐Ÿ˜Ž) and the other was a low grade I bought for $25 at the Chicago ANA show last summer and flipped it for $200.

Keep looking for them. If you find a better one awesome, but still keep that beautiful beast as you'll never forget your first v9 cherry ๐Ÿ’ โค ๐Ÿ˜Ž

Here's my baby...

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Alonzi VW 2.0!

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CascadeChris
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by CascadeChris » Tue May 26, 2020 7:00 pm

Oh, also, about having it slabbed by a TPG, if you don't want to spend the $$ on sending to a TPG and just want it protected and "label attributed" you also have the option of sending it to @messydesk's VARSLAB service. He cannot mention it himself here as it would be considered self promotion which belongs on the BST board and not here on the main board but this is what it would look like. You can send him a private message. Just an option you may not know about ๐Ÿ˜‰...

(If vampicker chimes in and says they would probably still holder it, I personally still would send it to ANACS but thats me)

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Alonzi VW 2.0!

DHalladay
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by DHalladay » Tue May 26, 2020 8:20 pm

BTW, are you aware there is also a clashed version of VAM 9? It's designation is VAM 9A.

Have you discovered the "Morgan VAMs by date" link on the left side of the VAMworld Wiki home main page? It will keep you buy looking, reading and learning for... well, pretty much forever.
When in doubt... don't.

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bjsilverfox
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by bjsilverfox » Tue May 26, 2020 9:09 pm

Congrats. I picked one last year that the dealer mistakenly labeled as an 1878 7 TF.

DHalladay
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by DHalladay » Tue May 26, 2020 9:20 pm

bjsilverfox wrote: โ†‘
Tue May 26, 2020 9:09 pm
Congrats. I picked one last year that the dealer mistakenly labeled as an 1878 7 TF.

LOVE IT!! :D :lol:
When in doubt... don't.

keydates
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by keydates » Tue May 26, 2020 10:52 pm

I picked a ngc ms 61 several years back in Omaha.
Paid 200.00 for it.
Pcgs called it au 58 which is still a nice coin.
Should try for upgrade someday.
Larry

VamHelsing
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Location: Oregon

Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by VamHelsing » Wed May 27, 2020 12:48 am

Larry, Nice!!! I own the V9 and V9A in VF35 PCGS plastic. Might as well bury them with me...

Harmattan1
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by Harmattan1 » Wed May 27, 2020 8:14 am

DHalladay wrote: โ†‘
Tue May 26, 2020 5:44 pm
Harmattan1 wrote: โ†‘
Tue May 26, 2020 5:41 pm
Thanks for your reply. For me, this is the one that started it all. Its the reason why we have this website to go to. Based on the facts I have seen, it was in the presence of one of our past Presidents, Rutherford Hayes. He may have even handled it. Its a connection to our past, our history. It saddens me that someone drilled a hole in it. I cant imagine if they understood what it was there would be no way they would have put a hole in it.
I do have a question about it though.............I wonder if NGC would grade it with a details grade but at least label it with Vam 9? I would still have it sent in for that confirmation. Either way, thanks for the reply. I will be posting another coin in the next day or so, have a question or two about it.

T

I am pretty confident that all 3 major grading companies, PCGS, NGC and ANACS, would grade it details and identify it as VAM 9. There are probably some folks here on the message boards who already have some similar coins in holders.
That is a relief to me to know they will give it a details grade. I will have to submit it and see what they do. I have had it for probably 7 or 8 years and have a special place just for the ones you dont want to ever get away.(LOL)

Harmattan1
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Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:10 am

Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by Harmattan1 » Wed May 27, 2020 8:17 am

bobbyjenkins wrote: โ†‘
Tue May 26, 2020 5:56 pm
Congrats on the 78-P VAM-9, nice find, good job . It's a great piece, the hole can be repaired but it's still going to be a details coin which is okay for a rare piece of history. So now you you're part of "this thing of ours".
I had no idea the hole could be repaired. Is that something that NGC, PCGS can do, or is that for someone else? I would think it would be difficult to not only plug the hole but also to match the tone, color of the silver and the finish as it is not uncirculated by any stretch. It would be great to have a top notch job done and be able to display this coin.

Harmattan1
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:10 am

Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by Harmattan1 » Wed May 27, 2020 8:22 am

messydesk wrote: โ†‘
Tue May 26, 2020 6:37 pm
Harmattan1 wrote: โ†‘
Tue May 26, 2020 5:41 pm
Thanks for your reply. For me, this is the one that started it all. Its the reason why we have this website to go to. Based on the facts I have seen, it was in the presence of one of our past Presidents, Rutherford Hayes. He may have even handled it. Its a connection to our past, our history. It saddens me that someone drilled a hole in it. I cant imagine if they understood what it was there would be no way they would have put a hole in it.
There's a good accounting of the first coins struck in the VAM book. Get one if you don't have one. While Hayes wasn't present at the first striking, the first coin was presented to him by the coiner. Apropos the care your coin was given, the Hayes specimen is harshly cleaned, and is at the Hayes museum in Fremont, OH.

Another thing to be aware of is that the 300 number that you will often see bandied about as the mintage for this variety is not correct. The first 300 coins were all VAM 9, but the mintage continued past this, and the total mintage of VAM 9 is probably closer to 8-10,000, which is still only about 10% of what they wanted to get from a die pair.
I do have a question about it though.............I wonder if NGC would grade it with a details grade but at least label it with Vam 9? I would still have it sent in for that confirmation. Either way, thanks for the reply. I will be posting another coin in the next day or so, have a question or two about it.
TPGs are funny about holed coins. It's one of the problems that doesn't necessarily make it into a holder. I would contact someone at your grading service of choice to get guidance. John Roberts (vampicker) might chime in about ANACS.
Man thanks for the details on the history here. The only story I have ever seen about the Vam9 is that the news media was there and supposedly the dies broke after 300+ were minted. I guess you can't believe everything you see. Anyway, thanks for the historical details. I will contact NGC as I am a member there, and see what they are willing to do. Since I am very new here, I am not sure who John is. Maybe he will see this thread and respond. Awesome.

Harmattan1
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Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:10 am

Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by Harmattan1 » Wed May 27, 2020 8:27 am

CascadeChris wrote: โ†‘
Tue May 26, 2020 6:48 pm
Nice find! I've only cherrypicked 2, ever, and both were last year. The first was a raw one for $80 at Long Beach that now sits in a PCGS xf40 holder (Ill never sell it, you never sell your first VAM 9 Cherrypick. Ever ๐Ÿ˜Ž) and the other was a low grade I bought for $25 at the Chicago ANA show last summer and flipped it for $200.

Keep looking for them. If you find a better one awesome, but still keep that beautiful beast as you'll never forget your first v9 cherry ๐Ÿ’ โค ๐Ÿ˜Ž

Here's my baby...


20200526_114526.jpg20200526_114612.jpg
What a great post. Ditto that about the first v9 cherry. Reminds me of my first girlfriend Brenda.......uh, er, uh....sorry about that, got lost in the memory there. :D :D
That is a beautiful slab and I really like the clear view with the Morgan just as clear as day there. I have never seen the Vam descriptor on the reverse on the slab like that. That is fantastic. Thanks

Harmattan1
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by Harmattan1 » Wed May 27, 2020 8:29 am

bjsilverfox wrote: โ†‘
Tue May 26, 2020 9:09 pm
Congrats. I picked one last year that the dealer mistakenly labeled as an 1878 7 TF.
Wow, I know math is hard for a lot of people and the number 8 is a reach for others but............

DHalladay
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by DHalladay » Wed May 27, 2020 1:28 pm

Here are a couple examples of holed coins in graded holders that have been sold by Heritage Auctions. Such items are not very common, and grading companies seem to be more willing to holder examples that are very old, rare and valuable, which actually makes the Morgan dollar pretty unusual. The PCGS coin seen here, by the way, sold for $37,600. :o

holed NGC.jpg
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holed PCGS.jpg
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When in doubt... don't.

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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: 1878 VAM 9 First Die Pair

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Wed May 27, 2020 2:03 pm

I bought a holed 3 cent silver one time to fill out the collection. My brother was a custom jeweler for decades so I asked him to fill the hole to see` what would happen. He did a decent job, but it didn't get past the graders at ANACS as a problem free coin. I would leave it alone.

I may actually still have the coin somewhere.

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