Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
twohawks
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:13 pm

Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by twohawks » Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:56 pm

Well this coin was in the mail for about 11 days and I showed it to a few after if was in the mail. Rob thought it was a tape line or internet trickery " With good reason!" The reeding on the coin is OK all the way around with a little damage on the rev side from what looks like a drop. All of the letters in the "Cud have the same luster as the whole coin. and the cud extends into the inside of the denticles to the rim. The reverse of the coin behind the area of this cud has No damage or what would see if this was some kind of "Press Job" .. The coin is a VAM-82 and the Obverse die was only used on this die pair. Is this the reason way?
Attachments
IMG_3293rjj-123412.jpg
IMG_3293rjj-123412.jpg (106.82 KiB) Viewed 2006 times
IMG_3295rjj-1231.jpg
IMG_3295rjj-1231.jpg (112.34 KiB) Viewed 2006 times
s-l400AMFDV51Kgfr.jpg
s-l400AMFDV51Kgfr.jpg (192.53 KiB) Viewed 2006 times
s-l400DCG6G8QG.jpg
s-l400DCG6G8QG.jpg (183.73 KiB) Viewed 2006 times

User avatar
Raybob15239
Posts: 552
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:52 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by Raybob15239 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:40 pm

Looks burned on the back. Some sort of heat damage?
I swear, someday I will learn how to grade Peace Dollars!

twohawks
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:13 pm

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by twohawks » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:44 pm

Nope its note burnt that's just the photo. The reverse on the opposite side of the CUD has no damage on the fields or lettering. The cud looks like the kind found on a lot of Washington Quarters.

twohawks
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:13 pm

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by twohawks » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:06 pm

close up
Attachments
IMG_3291rjj-87644.jpg
IMG_3291rjj-87644.jpg (112.97 KiB) Viewed 1981 times

DHalladay
Posts: 1766
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by DHalladay » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:18 pm

I've never seen anything close to a dead-straight cud on a Morgan, so this rates WAY up there on the interesting scale! I'm eager to hear what LVA has to say about this one.
When in doubt... don't.

iwillbenice
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:30 pm
Location: Buffalo,New York

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by iwillbenice » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:27 pm

Looks PMD.

bigjayvee
Posts: 412
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 9:01 am
Location: Florida

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by bigjayvee » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:56 pm

Russ,looks like the old"Cut with a Knife trick. Especially the way it cuts across the "S". Is the area in question raised?

twohawks
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:13 pm

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by twohawks » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:02 pm

I have seen many "Cut Coins" This is not a cut. All the lettering in the fields are level and show no damage including the reverse lettering on the opposite side. The raised areas have sharp defined terminations into areas that run into the lettering with no tooling and are in areas that I would think some tooling would have to be found if it was a man made error or manufactured error.

twohawks
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:13 pm

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by twohawks » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:04 pm

Cut coins are most often Circulated as to hide the cut and roll over. This is an UNC coin with a few light wipes

iwillbenice
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:30 pm
Location: Buffalo,New York

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by iwillbenice » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:17 pm

Looks like squeezed with pliers or vise grips. Flat obverse crumbled reverse rim.

twohawks
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:13 pm

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by twohawks » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:51 pm

I am not saying its not a squeeze job, in fact I am asking for opinions. I have seen a fair number of coins the someone has played with or pressed and this one looks nothing like anyone of them. The coin has rim damage, but not on the reeding but on the reverse side, and something happened there, Hence the title "Big Problem"

I just rolled a Q tip with ammonia over this coin so no toning is hiding something. If this is a press job of some sort, its the first where the letting on both sides have the same die texture round the whole coin. Here are shots after the ammonia.
Attachments
IMG_3323.jpg
IMG_3323.jpg (146.02 KiB) Viewed 1954 times
IMG_3324.jpg
IMG_3324.jpg (134.6 KiB) Viewed 1954 times
IMG_3313121.jpg
IMG_3313121.jpg (66.97 KiB) Viewed 1954 times
IMG_3317.jpg
IMG_3317.jpg (232.55 KiB) Viewed 1954 times
IMG_3315.jpg
IMG_3315.jpg (236.57 KiB) Viewed 1954 times

twohawks
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:13 pm

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by twohawks » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:51 pm

one more
Attachments
IMG_3327.jpg
IMG_3327.jpg (143.5 KiB) Viewed 1954 times

User avatar
Unc90o
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:20 pm
Location: California

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by Unc90o » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:12 pm

Planchet error?

iwillbenice
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:30 pm
Location: Buffalo,New York

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by iwillbenice » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:23 pm

Not a cud.Maybe partial clip.

User avatar
LateDateMorganGuy
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:11 am

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:04 pm

Doesn't look natural to me. I am in the camp of some sort of PMD. Things just don't look right to me.

User avatar
...kenny
Posts: 1112
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:58 pm
Location: Big Rock, New Hampshire
Contact:

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by ...kenny » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:11 pm

Reverse shows 'something' in the exact opposite from area on Obverse in question. Love the Obverse, don't trust the Reverse. Hope I'm wrong!... :lol:
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my.........Ah........Uhm........something, something, something..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

iwillbenice
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:30 pm
Location: Buffalo,New York

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by iwillbenice » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:57 pm

I know what it is.Its a skid mark. :lol:

User avatar
ifthevamzarockin
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 5:40 am

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by ifthevamzarockin » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:12 am

Very strange indeed, but I have to agree with the PMD idea.

User avatar
CascadeChris
Posts: 2484
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 10:41 pm

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by CascadeChris » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:15 am

Could it be a ragged edge clip and the metal strip had a straight cut or other type of damage to it at the edge where this planchet was popped from? *Grabs popcorn and waits for the big boys to chime in*
Alonzi VW 2.0!

RogerRock
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:40 am

Re: Big Problem with this 1878 P B1 Reverse with a CUD

Post by RogerRock » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:27 am

My experience with error coins rules out the obverse "cud" possibility immediately. The abrupt straight line elevation with
adjacent raised field is caused by die damage. I found two jefferson nickels with this same type of error. Both nickels
were slabbed as "die damage" errors. The reverse area in question may be a planchet defect or PMD.
Stage 3 TERMINAL DIE STATE SILVER DOLLAR EXPLORER

Post Reply