Morgan 1921-P VAM-25 = VAM-1V?

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
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Kissov
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:14 pm

Morgan 1921-P VAM-25 = VAM-1V?

Post by Kissov » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:25 pm

I know, I know, 25/25A is a wide reed coin and 1V is not.

The photos below are from a VAM-25A example.

Note the bent line in the bow. Matches that shown for VAM-1V.

WIN_20210105_13_10_47_Pro.jpg
WIN_20210105_13_10_47_Pro.jpg (204.08 KiB) Viewed 489 times

Note the hairpin scribble adjacent to the right leg. Matches that shown for VAM-1V.

WIN_20210105_13_13_19_Pro.jpg
WIN_20210105_13_13_19_Pro.jpg (179.06 KiB) Viewed 489 times

Finally, the lower right wing shows polishing lines that match those shown for VAM-1V.

WIN_20210105_13_12_28_Pro.jpg
WIN_20210105_13_12_28_Pro.jpg (192.07 KiB) Viewed 489 times

So is VAM-1V really VAM-25 or is VAM-1V struck from VAM-25 dies with a normal collar?

Geseas
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Location: West Michigan

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-25 = VAM-1V?

Post by Geseas » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:42 pm

Great Photos! Thanks for sharing. These also I think would help its page. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4686
Last edited by Geseas on Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DHalladay
Posts: 1958
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-25 = VAM-1V?

Post by DHalladay » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:49 pm

Things I wish:
1 – That LVA plate images were on the 1V attribution page.
2 – That we knew who discovered 1V, and when.
3 – That I had a 1V to compare with my 25 and 25A.

Absent any/all of those, it sure looks like you are right!
Great detective work!
When in doubt... don't.

Kissov
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-25 = VAM-1V?

Post by Kissov » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:51 pm

Thanks Dennis.

Now we just need some way to make your wishes come true!

DHalladay
Posts: 1958
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-25 = VAM-1V?

Post by DHalladay » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:30 pm

VAM 1V is listed in the Scribbles Attribution Guide by LVA and Crae Morton (published in 2008). It contains 3 plate images (not extremely clear, due to being printed on porous, non-coated paper). They appear below, in the highest (600 dpi) resolution my old scanner is capable of.

They do indeed appear to show that both regular and wide reeding collars were used with at least the same reverse die. Would someone who has a 1V and a 25/25A please look for evidence that the obverses are identical too?

VAM 1V plate-scribs.jpg
VAM 1V plate-scribs.jpg (441.31 KiB) Viewed 441 times
VAM 1V plate-bow.jpg
VAM 1V plate-bow.jpg (409.91 KiB) Viewed 441 times
VAM 1V plate-wing scribs.jpg
VAM 1V plate-wing scribs.jpg (444.7 KiB) Viewed 441 times
When in doubt... don't.

DHalladay
Posts: 1958
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-25 = VAM-1V?

Post by DHalladay » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:59 pm

Here's a photo of the bow on my VAM 25. the line indicated by arrows in LVA's plate image was very tricky to see with just a loupe. The same line is also on my 25A.

1921-P VAM 25 bow.jpg
1921-P VAM 25 bow.jpg (277.7 KiB) Viewed 436 times
When in doubt... don't.

DHalladay
Posts: 1958
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-25 = VAM-1V?

Post by DHalladay » Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:42 pm

Update:
I reached out to 2 collectors who provided some/many of the coins used for the Scribbles Guide, but both said VAM 1V did not come from them. :(
When in doubt... don't.

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pup_picker
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Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-25 = VAM-1V?

Post by pup_picker » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:08 am

who uploaded the pics to the 1V page?

are there any known shared obv/rev dies with wide and regular reeded coins. surely if none are known now, one/some will be discovered.

does leroy not confide in one single other human on this earth to trust discovery information with for the simple sake of helping to keep things accurate?

crabscrape
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Location: Virginia

Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-25 = VAM-1V?

Post by crabscrape » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:31 am

Dennis, I will look and see if I have the 1V. Sure Like to get that Dam Vam 44?? People set on them coins!!!!!

DHalladay
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Re: Morgan 1921-P VAM-25 = VAM-1V?

Post by DHalladay » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:18 am

pup_picker wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:08 am
are there any known shared obv/rev dies with wide and regular reeded coins. surely if none are known now, one/some will be discovered.

The answer is yes... twice. The VAM 94 die pairing was used with both a standard collar (VAM 94) and a wide reeding collar (VAMs 29/29A).

VAMs 45, 101, and 44 have the same reverse, but 45 and 101 were made with a standard collar, while 44 was made with a wide reeding collar
When in doubt... don't.

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