1878-S VAM-1C Die Chip R, Reverse Die Used in 1879 (Reinstated 2015)

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Flat-Chested
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Location: Saskatchewan Canada

1878-S VAM-1C Die Chip R, Reverse Die Used in 1879 (Reinstated 2015)

Post by Flat-Chested » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:56 pm

1878-S VAM-1C is my best guess, common in this grade?
1878-S VAM-1C Ob EOO_8316.jpg
1878-S VAM-1C Ob EOO_8316.jpg (270.95 KiB) Viewed 782 times
1878-S VAM-1C Rev EOO_8317.jpg
1878-S VAM-1C Rev EOO_8317.jpg (281.35 KiB) Viewed 782 times

Flat-Chested
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Location: Saskatchewan Canada

Re: 1878-S VAM-1C Die Chip R, Reverse Die Used in 1879 (Reinstated 2015)

Post by Flat-Chested » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:44 pm

Ok it's not a 1C, and I am busy working on this today.

Vam-mysterio
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1C Die Chip R, Reverse Die Used in 1879 (Reinstated 2015)

Post by Vam-mysterio » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:39 pm

Try
Vam 24,30

Flat-Chested
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1C Die Chip R, Reverse Die Used in 1879 (Reinstated 2015)

Post by Flat-Chested » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:44 pm

And today I am guessing it to be a VAM-24. Attribution Guide #4 was helpful. Issue I had (have) is a number of letters are doubled and didn't find these listed as PUPs. It's my final answer, VAM-24.
1878-S VAM-24 bow mm EOO_8378.jpg
1878-S VAM-24 bow mm EOO_8378.jpg (143.92 KiB) Viewed 741 times
1878-S VAM-24 arrowheads EOO_8378.jpg
1878-S VAM-24 arrowheads EOO_8378.jpg (480.95 KiB) Viewed 741 times
1878-S VAM 24 RICA EOO_8376.jpg
1878-S VAM 24 RICA EOO_8376.jpg (126.17 KiB) Viewed 741 times
1878-S VAM 24 LAR EOO_8376.jpg
1878-S VAM 24 LAR EOO_8376.jpg (174.04 KiB) Viewed 741 times

RogerB
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1C Die Chip R, Reverse Die Used in 1879 (Reinstated 2015)

Post by RogerB » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:57 pm

In ignorant question:

By "Reverse Die Used in 1879" do you mean the same reverse die design, or this specific die was paired with an obverse dated "1879?"

tbconcrete
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1C Die Chip R, Reverse Die Used in 1879 (Reinstated 2015)

Post by tbconcrete » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:12 pm

Roger, This die was used for coinage in 1879 (S). Same die used in 1878 for VAMs 1C and 95. SF had a few dies used in 79 from the 78 run. tim
Reverse B2a– Lightly engraved shallow feathers between eagles right wing and leg. Slightly doubled D in Dollar at bottom. Die chip on upper right of loop of R in AMERICA. R in trust NOT broken. Die later used on 1879-S Vam-4, 23, and 25

tbconcrete
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1C Die Chip R, Reverse Die Used in 1879 (Reinstated 2015)

Post by tbconcrete » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:13 pm

24, 30 and 43 all shared this reverse,

RogerB
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1C Die Chip R, Reverse Die Used in 1879 (Reinstated 2015)

Post by RogerB » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:26 pm

tbconcrete wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:12 pm
Roger, This die was used for coinage in 1879 (S). Same die used in 1878 for VAMs 1C and 95. SF had a few dies used in 79 from the 78 run. tim
Reverse B2a– Lightly engraved shallow feathers between eagles right wing and leg. Slightly doubled D in Dollar at bottom. Die chip on upper right of loop of R in AMERICA. R in trust NOT broken. Die later used on 1879-S Vam-4, 23, and 25
Tim: So....this specific reverse die was used in both 1878 and 1879.
1878-S Vam 1C and 95
1879-S Vam 4, 23 and 25

I ask from the points of curiosity, and counterfeit detection. A concise list of cross-date die pairs might help with identification of high quality modern fakes. Wonder if a TPG would be interested in supporting this through VAMworld members? Possibly another way to expand the utility of your hobby specialty.

tbconcrete
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1C Die Chip R, Reverse Die Used in 1879 (Reinstated 2015)

Post by tbconcrete » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:37 am

Roger,
Good to see you contributing here. I dont think the TPGs other than ANACS , who does all VAMs, would spend the time on a series that until just recently was relatively cheap to collect (79S-R78). But I see where you are heading and the variety has gotten expensive to collect in any MS Grade. I dont know the difficulty to change a 78S Obverse, the 8 into a 9. Time will tell. I know many 78S Reverse Dies had so much hand work that it would be damn near impossible to duplicate.
78S VAM 45/68 Rev Die was also used in the 79S run.
Tim

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Unc90o
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1C Die Chip R, Reverse Die Used in 1879 (Reinstated 2015)

Post by Unc90o » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:13 am

This letter suggest that use of 78 reverse with 79 obverse.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4420&p=38410&hilit=rogerb#p38410

RogerB
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Re: 1878-S VAM-1C Die Chip R, Reverse Die Used in 1879 (Reinstated 2015)

Post by RogerB » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:59 am

tbconcrete wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:37 am
Roger,
Good to see you contributing here. I dont think the TPGs other than ANACS , who does all VAMs, would spend the time on a series that until just recently was relatively cheap to collect (79S-R78). But I see where you are heading and the variety has gotten expensive to collect in any MS Grade. I dont know the difficulty to change a 78S Obverse, the 8 into a 9. Time will tell. I know many 78S Reverse Dies had so much hand work that it would be damn near impossible to duplicate.
78S VAM 45/68 Rev Die was also used in the 79S run.
Tim
Tim, I am not referring to just this specific combination, but of all those known to VAM specialists. Counterfeiters do not pay attention to such things, and by checking suspected fakes against cross-date dies it should be possible to improve authentication techniques. The impetus has to come from VAM specialists to inform TPGs and engage them in a mutually beneficial way.

I'm attempting to encourage or interest non-variety collectors in your specialty, and present it as less of a "closed-end" group. Looking for productive ways others can use your data, the CW article, and others are some methods. It is up to VAM collectors to do the rest.

RWB

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