Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

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RogerB
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Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by RogerB » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:07 am

See if you can identify the VAM for 1891-O based on this letter.
:)
18910922 NO Letter E near eagle tail feathers.jpg
18910922 NO Letter E near eagle tail feathers.jpg (147.27 KiB) Viewed 495 times

morganman
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by morganman » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:37 am

Now thats a WOW- Sure a great find Roger, couldnt believe my eyes on this letter.
Goes to show how modern day finds may be yesterdays knowledge.

This letter leaves many questions open as to various Mint Errors that
were actually known by their makers or etc. History, especially documented
is a powerful/terrific compilation of facts.

Kudos & Keep up the great work!!!!!!!
:|

lured_in_again
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by lured_in_again » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:49 am

Right up my alley.... may I use that info / photo in my notes, or would I need to seek permission in writing ? I have a little die study that is in early stages of progress. The letter doesn't mention anything about the break between the wreath and olive branch leaves..... so I'll hold back my "guess" for now so others may enjoy your posting. Thanks for posting.

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Unc90o
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by Unc90o » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:10 am

Very cool letter!!!
Perhaps this is why there's no more 'E' clash after 1891?

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messydesk
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by messydesk » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:25 am

Awesome! A bit of dumb luck that one ended up in the special assay. One must wonder what Preston did with them after they were returned, although I imagine they were unceremoniously treated to the same fate as other coins in a special assay.
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vampicker
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by vampicker » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:50 pm

Love it!
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

VamHelsing
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by VamHelsing » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:17 pm

Now that's cool!

RogerB
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by RogerB » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:39 pm

Anyone who wants a PDF or JPG of the letter, please send me a PM with your email address. Digitization of this archival material was sponsored by the Newman Numismatic Portal (NNP).

VamHelsing
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by VamHelsing » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:44 pm

Hmm, wonder how the dies were "Evidently fractured"?? :shock:

RogerB
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by RogerB » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:50 pm

Letters mentioning specific defects or unusual characteristics are extremely rare - much rarer than the coins.

The two dollars were likely returned as requested and destroyed during normal Special Assay work. There is also the possibility that the Engraver, or someone at Mint HQ wrote to New Orleans concerning the added "E." If a letter was sent by HQ, it should be in E-235 Vol 062. I will check this once NARA has reopened.

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Longstrider
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by Longstrider » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:01 pm

When they mention the left side of the eagle do they mean his left or the left as we view the coin??

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messydesk
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by messydesk » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:19 pm

I'm going to forward the image to Leroy to see if he'll officially update the discovery date to September 22, 1891, and make the Acting Director Preston the discoverer of the variety.
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CascadeChris
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by CascadeChris » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:14 pm

messydesk wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:19 pm
I'm going to forward the image to Leroy to see if he'll officially update the discovery date to September 22, 1891, and make the Acting Director Preston the discoverer of the variety.
That would be awesome. He should too! Haha
Alonzi VW 2.0!

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CascadeChris
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by CascadeChris » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:15 pm

@twohawks is gonna freak! :lol:
Alonzi VW 2.0!

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Longstrider
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by Longstrider » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:34 pm

So is my question a stupid newbie question?🐍

fogie
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by fogie » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:58 pm

not a dumb ? - What he meant (i assume) is the viewers left (since that is where the E rev. coins have the "E"). Generally speaking the Eagle's left wing is seen by us (the viewer) on the right.

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Longstrider
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by Longstrider » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:49 pm

Got it. I am always wondering if there is an understood way to view..Thanks.

RogerB
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by RogerB » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:03 pm

CascadeChris wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:14 pm
messydesk wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:19 pm
I'm going to forward the image to Leroy to see if he'll officially update the discovery date to September 22, 1891, and make the Acting Director Preston the discoverer of the variety.
That would be awesome. He should too! Haha
Permit me to clarify the timeline on the letter. Special Assay coins were pulled from each delivery. Regulations required that the delivery not be issued (released from the mint) until Special Assay result had been approved. This requirement was not always observed; however, for coins with very limited demand it is probable the coins refereed to were at the New Orleans Mint when the defect was identified.

Special Assay submissions and tests were performed in delivery sequence order. Therefore it is most likely that the letter refers to coins made within a week or two of the letter's date. Coins were sent under US Mint government frank with registration added. Similar submissions took 2-4 days to get from New Orleans to Mint HQ in Washington and to the Mint's Assay Lab. If the Special Assay paperwork can be located, it will further refine the delivery date.

My opinion is that the coins were struck and delivered to the New Orleans Cashier sometime between September 10 and September 19, 1891.

RogerB
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by RogerB » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:07 pm

PS: The actual discoverer would likely have been the Assayer, Cabell Whitehead, who noticed the problem and brought it to Acting Director Robert Preston's attention. The discovery should be credited to Mr. Whitehead, September 1891. I don't think he's around to assign a "Discovery VAM Number" to the coins.

:)

This is one of the enjoyable aspects of original research !

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messydesk
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Re: Name That VAM - 1891-O edition

Post by messydesk » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:52 pm

Would the special assay paperwork be pay off the assay commission records on your DVDs of the assay commission reports?
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