SALES TAX

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
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morganman
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SALES TAX

Post by morganman » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:49 am

Sold a Morgan on ebay= First one that bay colected tax from seller from MA
Thinking it through its a terrible blow to both buyer & seller, as over time buyers will deduct the tax
amount from a coins value. On a large collection this is a huge hit making the collection worth say
6-10% less in value. I think im right on this= IMHO??

Feedback appreciated- I posted on tax a while back and now the reality hits !!!!!!!!
Worse yet a state withot tax creates a super unfair advantage over the taxed states values IMHO
Im in Oregon so no tax on purchases. which lessens my cost -creating a real advantage =if one
buys a lot and then resales as well.

TERRIBLE TERRIBLE FOR INDUSTRY AS WHOLE-
:|

morganman
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by morganman » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:53 am

In my first sentence of post i meant to say= tax collected from 'BUYER" not Seller
:|

morganman
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by morganman » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:57 am

This post probally belonged on BST Posted at 3:50 in AM so excuse my sleepy rant
:|

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messydesk
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by messydesk » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:53 pm

morganman wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:49 am
...
TERRIBLE TERRIBLE FOR INDUSTRY AS WHOLE-
Indeed, it is. ICTA has been working to alleviate this problem, so if you want to be their ally in the fight against sales tax on coins, they'd welcome it. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy the only advantage to living in Illinois that there is -- no tax on coins.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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bob259
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by bob259 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:48 pm

I have sold a few coins on the bay where sales tax was collected. I agree with Scott that this will hurt sales. I got a low offer and explained I had grading costs plus ebay/paypal fees as well as shipping went up higher than I was collecting. He came back with he had to pay sales tax.

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CascadeChris
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by CascadeChris » Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:00 pm

bob259 wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:48 pm
I have sold a few coins on the bay where sales tax was collected. I agree with Scott that this will hurt sales. I got a low offer and explained I had grading costs plus ebay/paypal fees as well as shipping went up higher than I was collecting. He came back with he had to pay sales tax.
Fyi, its typically never a good strategy to counter a low offer with an itemized list like that. It never works as most just see it as your cost of doing business. They have their number in mind which is either their hard limit or their first volley in a negotiation. Just send a second offer slightly above the lowest you'll take. If they accept, great. If they counter then you counter again with your bare minimum and leave it at that. If they counter that then use your last counter to resend your lowest number and they'll know that your bare bottom and either take it or not.. Just understand that you can't hook every fish 😉
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Longstrider
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by Longstrider » Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:37 pm

@morganman So does eBay just take the tax off the top like they do their fees? Thanks.🐍

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messydesk
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by messydesk » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:11 pm

Longstrider wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:37 pm
@morganman So does eBay just take the tax off the top like they do their fees? Thanks.🐍
They charge it to the buyer. The seller never sees it other than on the paid invoice.
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morganman
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by morganman » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:11 am

I guess in all fairness the coin/numismatic industry has avoided any Sales tax all these yrs when
most everything else got taxed. We became super spoiled and hid under the umbrella for many yrs.
This hits the Numismatic industry especially hard today, as industry struggles to hold any premiums
At very least, no state should be exempt from tax to even the playing field for all Numismatics, but
leave it to government to screw this up as well. This will really hurt the already struggling Numismatic
industry IMHO
:|

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bob259
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by bob259 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:40 am

CascadeChris wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:00 pm
bob259 wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:48 pm
I have sold a few coins on the bay where sales tax was collected. I agree with Scott that this will hurt sales. I got a low offer and explained I had grading costs plus ebay/paypal fees as well as shipping went up higher than I was collecting. He came back with he had to pay sales tax.
Fyi, its typically never a good strategy to counter a low offer with an itemized list like that. It never works as most just see it as your cost of doing business. They have their number in mind which is either their hard limit or their first volley in a negotiation. Just send a second offer slightly above the lowest you'll take. If they accept, great. If they counter then you counter again with your bare minimum and leave it at that. If they counter that then use your last counter to resend your lowest number and they'll know that your bare bottom and either take it or not.. Just understand that you can't hook every fish 😉
Not sure I agree with you Chris as many times when I stated my costs the buyer recognized my counter offer was fair and bought the coin. I usually come back with my bottom line and state so based on my costs. I've sold many coins over the years.

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alefzero
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by alefzero » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:50 am

I have always charged sales tax to lots delivered to California customers and reported the tax, by appropriately adjusting sales prices for California shows to non-resale (non-dealer) buyers under the $1500 (formerly $1000) threshold. it's the law. Whether i like it or not, I follow it. We have folks lobbying to exempt coins in every state though. If it comes to pass that they are exempted, it will be nice to not be handicapped in competing with peers who do not report their sales correctly to evade the tax hits.

What eBay is doing complicates things. I have to submit an annual return in July of each year, like other dealers, reporting the sales (July 1 - June 30) and sending in the taxes collected. There is no provision for sales taxes collected by and submitted by an intermediary (eBay). After a number of lengthy phone conversations with eBay, the Board of Equalization, and the CDFTA, there seems to be only one solution: to report those sales as one does as sales to other resellers. eBay will proxy as a reseller and the sale will effectively be through them, since they collected the tax.

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alefzero
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by alefzero » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:59 am

bob259 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:40 am
CascadeChris wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:00 pm
bob259 wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:48 pm
I have sold a few coins on the bay where sales tax was collected. I agree with Scott that this will hurt sales. I got a low offer and explained I had grading costs plus ebay/paypal fees as well as shipping went up higher than I was collecting. He came back with he had to pay sales tax.
Fyi, its typically never a good strategy to counter a low offer with an itemized list like that. It never works as most just see it as your cost of doing business. They have their number in mind which is either their hard limit or their first volley in a negotiation. Just send a second offer slightly above the lowest you'll take. If they accept, great. If they counter then you counter again with your bare minimum and leave it at that. If they counter that then use your last counter to resend your lowest number and they'll know that your bare bottom and either take it or not.. Just understand that you can't hook every fish 😉
Not sure I agree with you Chris as many times when I stated my costs the buyer recognized my counter offer was fair and bought the coin. I usually come back with my bottom line and state so based on my costs. I've sold many coins over the years.
I just had a little volley with a bidder on eBay. My auctions are 99c starts, no reserves, and free shipping. I also leave a provision for best offers. So the bidder sends an offer of $1. I obviously declined it and added a note that ti was puzzling that such an absurd offer would be made and questioned whether they do that to hope to catch a seller who accidentally clicks Accept. They wrote back that the coin is a silver dollar and is worth $1 and it made sense because I started the auction at 99 cents. Figured I might save him grief with other sellers by explaining that the melt value alone was over $13 and that you cannot but uncirculated Morgan dollars raw typically for less than $30. Also explained that sending to PCGS for grading and attribution incurs considerable fees and shipping charges exceeding the raw coin number I related. Did not even get into the eBay and PayPal fees, shipping I would be paying and the fact that a premium variety often reflects considerable man hours seeking and bears a market premium. Yeah, it is the cost of doing business ..... but a business needs to remain profitable (though 12 of the 16 years for me have not been).

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messydesk
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by messydesk » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:27 am

alefzero wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:59 am

I just had a little volley with a bidder on eBay. My auctions are 99c starts, no reserves, and free shipping. I also leave a provision for best offers. So the bidder sends an offer of $1. I obviously declined it and added a note that ti was puzzling that such an absurd offer would be made and questioned whether they do that to hope to catch a seller who accidentally clicks Accept. They wrote back that the coin is a silver dollar and is worth $1 and it made sense because I started the auction at 99 cents. Figured I might save him grief ...
I think I would have been a little more selfish and saved myself some grief by blocking that bidder.
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morganman
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by morganman » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:43 am

Bob; Im with Chris on this one : On E BAY or any auction site, explaining your costs etc of sale
is burdensome and most buyers care less.
Since selling on E BAY is quite im personal im in the camp of
less is better,and leaving left to a good description etc within listing.

Quite honestly E BAY sucks but is only game for many coins.
I have sold many a morgan on bay that would never have sold otherwise
so that is a positive.

I for one will be glad to get out of the coin business as its not Fun
like it used to be. Additional issues like taxation make things that much
worse and prohibitive.
:|

colwillys
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by colwillys » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:44 pm

Yes the word is FUN . Do not miss the word FUN .. This is What will keep you in the game FUN .
Innovation will make you succeed , now go off and have FUN , taxes are not going away .. Love you all .

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HawkeEye
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by HawkeEye » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:47 pm

There is some strange quirk here that I don't understand and it seems to spill over into Amazon purchases. I know if I bought or sold something in Georgia we pay sales tax. But outside of Georgia the sales tax seemed to be spotty and I think it had to do with the aggressiveness of the State on sales tax.

Then there is the wild card of attracting Amazon or eBay for business. We have a very large Amazon warehouse in a tiny town that is geographically mid way between three large markets. Overnight they became the largest employer in the area, so making them mad isn't a good thing.

These two are somewhat different because eBay is just pairing up buyers and sellers, but Amazon is getting more in that arena and the sales tax thing will be relevant for both.
Deep in the woods of North Georgia

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Bigbub
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by Bigbub » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:39 pm

Here is what the constitution says:

"No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress."

Unfortunately, in the recent Wayfair decision, the online retailer who objected to being a tax collector for states who insisted they pay state sales tax to states in which they had no presence, the court did not address this clause.

Essentially, states with sales taxes now can collect sales tax on items sold from every state. All the major online retailers buckled because they had to. You can look it up. Just smile and mail in your tax money.

morganman
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by morganman » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:40 pm

Well IMHO = MY SHORT RANT

All my life i have been a independant cuss, thinking outside the bus, personally and
in business. Hating status quo & beauracrats along with Large Government Controls.

Were taxed to DEATH in this country and this Tax is no different
No tax on coins is WHY i put my accumulated funds/profits into more & more coins
Now in my golden yrs i must begin to sell. Up until just recently i still bought a lot of
coins as a habit and to keep active. Now im totally done and cant wait to market every
coin i have and exit the business/hobby before i croak still having inventory.
Spending my money having FUN is now my top priority

I wish good luck & fun to those still collecting for whatever reasons
:|

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bob259
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by bob259 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:10 pm

morganman wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:43 am
Bob; Im with Chris on this one : On E BAY or any auction site, explaining your costs etc of sale
is burdensome and most buyers care less.
To be more clear in what I do and I don't explain all costs to all. It goes like this. The person offers a low ball offer and I respond with I pay grading fees, ebay and paypal fees as well as some extra shipping so my best price is ??. Many times they have agreed with my price after considering costs they didn't think about.

I don't go back and forth. Always a waste of my time. If the offer is reasonable I omit the info on costs. I'll either counter with just a bottom line price or accept the offer.

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UncleGildy
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Re: SALES TAX

Post by UncleGildy » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:51 am

Yup. I've been griping and cursing since January 2 this year (I didn't waste any time breaking my New Year's resolution to exercise more restraint with Morgans on the bay).
https://taxfoundation.org/state-remote- ... n-wayfair/

A side effect is that eBay will have to refund you the tax on any returns, and it'll show up almost a month after the return. You'll get an email from PayPal saying eBay credited your account with some obscure sum of money. I carried the $2.70 balance on my PayPal account for almost a week, as I tried to behave myself and not exceed my Morgan budget for a second straight month. (I failed 8-))

If only there were more coin shows in my area.

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