1896-O VAM 20?

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Dirtdoctor
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:44 am

1896-O VAM 20?

Post by Dirtdoctor » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:39 pm

I purchased a cleaned but otherwise decent 1896-O, and cannot attribute it. It's primary characteristics are: strongly doubled 1 under crossbar; near date (midway 2nd and 3rd denticles); O a smidge right and tilted right; and no thread impression at eyelid. Also it has apparent doubling inside the wreath bow and left of bow, doubling of "we trust", and roughness of C3 wing gap. Potential doubling at top of "6" and of top left of MM.
Eliminated (but checked every VAM) those missing or not calling out doubled 1's, near date, and O tilted right.
Focused on remaining VAM details:
Ruled out V16 due thread impression and "O" tilt
Ruled out V24 due to low date and no mention of doubled 1.
Ruled out V29 (struggled with no pictures to compare) due to reference to V16 obverse, and thus eyelid-thread impression.
That leaves V20, which has no pictures and little text except title. VAM 20 does not mention a doubled 1, which is one of this coins most striking characteristics, and is visible to naked eye.
If this is VAM 20, and someone wants to use my pics, or wants more, I would be glad to send them.
Attachments
1896 O Date.jpg
1896 O Date.jpg (331.71 KiB) Viewed 83 times
1896 O MM and Wreath.jpg
1896 O MM and Wreath.jpg (372.4 KiB) Viewed 83 times
1896 O Eye.jpg
1896 O Eye.jpg (355.82 KiB) Viewed 83 times
1896 O Eagle.jpg
1896 O Eagle.jpg (321.2 KiB) Viewed 83 times

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LateDateMorganGuy
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:11 am

Re: 1896-O VAM 20?

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:22 pm

Here is my two cents. You seem to be caught in VAMatory. Keep in mind that multiple die pairs may exist.

Not a VAM-16.

Not a VAM-24, although some V24s seem to have a doubled 1 under the top crossbar.

The VAM-29 is listed with a III2-12 obverse die. This is the same as VAM-16, but likely based on base attributes, such as the doubled 1 and doubled ear. I doubt Leroy meant that it had the same thread-like die marker as the VAM-16. But without photos of the V29 DC, who knows. The M/M description in the VAM-29 listing seems to match your coin. Does your coin have a doubled ear?

The VAM-20 is also misleading. It is listed with an obverse die of III2-5, same as VAM-9. While it is implied that it is a VAM-9 obverse, the reverse die of VAM-9 is listed as a C3a, meaning centered & upright. The VAM-20 is listed with a M/M tilted right. I would guess the VAM-20 is a duplicate of the VAM-9, but who knows? I think the VAM-9 M/M is "within tolerance" of a C3a reverse. Does your coin have a doubled ear as listed for the VAM-20?

All things being equal, if the coin was mine, I would put a VAM-29 sticker on it and move on.

Welcome to VAMatory. Bottom line for me is that the coin in question has no meaningful attributes that would bring any value on re-sale.

Dirtdoctor
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:44 am

Re: 1896-O VAM 20?

Post by Dirtdoctor » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:45 pm

Thanks so much for the thoughtful and detailed reply. Yes it has the slightly doubled lower lobe on the outside.

I've noted the comment about "multiple pairings may exist" previously, but did not really understand it. I assumed when die parings were different than previously noted, that one would have a new VAM. The obverse of VAM AA and reverse of VAM BB would be new VAM CC.?
Attachments
1896 O Ear.jpg
1896 O Ear.jpg (362.73 KiB) Viewed 59 times

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LateDateMorganGuy
Posts: 469
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Re: 1896-O VAM 20?

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:04 pm

So with what arguably is a very minor doubled ear lobe, that doesn't help much in my mind to nail down an attribution.

To answer your question is complicated, if Obverse AA is paired with Reverse BB, and both OAA or RBB fall within tolerance of an existing VAM description, it could be a Die #1 and Die #2 thing. If you can assemble enough coins to tell Leroy a story between different die pairs and/or marriages, then OAA and RBB might get a new VAM listing.

But at the end of the day, I will say again, if there is nothing with a coolness factor on any of them, why does it matter at the end of the day? I know there are folks that are determined to list every die pair for some reason. And if you fall into that camp, okay fine. But having done this for like 18 years, if there is no re-sale upon liquedation, why bother?

Dirtdoctor
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:44 am

Re: 1896-O VAM 20?

Post by Dirtdoctor » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:46 pm

Fair enough, just trying to get it right. Thanks for your time and responses.

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