1904 O VAM 2A

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bjsilverfox
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1904 O VAM 2A

Post by bjsilverfox » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:29 pm

Does anyone know if the 1904 O VAM 2A comes without any reverse clashing or die polishing lines? The example I have has an observe rim cud at BU and also LU of E PLURIBUS.

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ljs123
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Re: 1904 O VAM 2A

Post by ljs123 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:04 pm

I believe that all 2As do not show reverse clashing.
Look at the two LFCP reverses on the 2A page and see if they show any strong polishing. I don't see it.
The first LFCP obverse shows a start of a rim cud at BU.

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 4-O_VAM-2A

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bjsilverfox
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Re: 1904 O VAM 2A

Post by bjsilverfox » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:22 pm

ljs123 wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:04 pm
I believe that all 2As do not show reverse clashing.
Look at the two LFCP reverses on the 2A page and see if they show any strong polishing. I don't see it.
The first LFCP obverse shows a start of a rim cud at BU.

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 4-O_VAM-2A

That is what I thought too when I looked at the reverse LFCP's. My example is a latter die state as evidenced by the additional observe rim cud at LU. So I thought maybe the reverse might have been swapped out. Now, I'm wondering if the comment about the heavily polished reverse is accurate.

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ljs123
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Re: 1904 O VAM 2A

Post by ljs123 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:35 pm

The 2A reverse is the same as VAM-6 die #1 reverse.
Look at the comment on the VAM-6 page.
http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 04-O_VAM-6

"Die 1 - Slightly doubled top two leaf cluster in left wreath. Same die as VAM 2A. Heavy polishing lines in wreath bow, eagle’s tail feathers and left wing."

So does your coin show the polishing in the wreath bow, eagle's tail feathers and left wing? If so, I doubt that you have a coin with a different reverse.

morganman
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Re: 1904 O VAM 2A

Post by morganman » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:28 pm

IMHO= The many die states within Morgans really serves but to confuse- especially new vammers & older
geisers like myself. Granted, the varied die states provide super insight to the minting process etc
and more. This all drives me crazy, especially with some commanding premiums and som die states not so much

Its all gotton a bit outta hand=IMHO With prices in general falling 50% plus i guess everybody got bored
and needed another facet to morgans to keep hobby alive.
For me its very informative but causes to much newbe confusion
Financially. in total, makes little difference
:|

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bjsilverfox
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Re: 1904 O VAM 2A

Post by bjsilverfox » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:51 pm

ljs123 wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:35 pm
The 2A reverse is the same as VAM-6 die #1 reverse.
Look at the comment on the VAM-6 page.
http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 04-O_VAM-6

"Die 1 - Slightly doubled top two leaf cluster in left wreath. Same die as VAM 2A. Heavy polishing lines in wreath bow, eagle’s tail feathers and left wing."

So does your coin show the polishing in the wreath bow, eagle's tail feathers and left wing? If so, I doubt that you have a coin with a different reverse.
Yes, my reverse matches the VAM 6 die 1. Take a look at Comment 1 and pictures on the 1904 VAM 2A page. They are the cause of my confusion. Should they be removed?

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ljs123
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Re: 1904 O VAM 2A

Post by ljs123 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:23 pm

bjsilverfox wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:51 pm

Yes, my reverse matches the VAM 6 die 1. Take a look at Comment 1 and pictures on the 1904 VAM 2A page. They are the cause of my confusion. Should they be removed?
No, I don't think that the comment should be removed. I think it likely comes down to when the silver coin was pressed.
But Alan @LateDateMorganGuy would be a much better person to answer your question than I.

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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: 1904 O VAM 2A

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:58 pm

I did a die study of the 1904-O series back in 2010. But Kurt came along and jumped in and found a new die marriage or two, but also put together the highest ranking 1904-O set in the SSDC Registry. It beats mine out. In the course of Kurt putting his set together, he also had a few kills and new listings of the same die pairs along the way (checkers moving around the checker board).

When the "Group" went thru old VW1.0 to eliminate postings of Leroy's copyrighted original VAM Plates from the Encyclopedia, I encouraged Kurt to post photos of his coins and update the pages based on his superior 1904-O Reference Set. I do not remember if I made Comment 1 on the V2A page or if Kurt did. Guess it doesn't matter.

That being said, the die incest and progression is shown below. I assume Comment 1 on the V2A page was based on an EDS of the V2A. Since the reverse die was used extensively in the V2A marriage, I would change the wording to be the same as on the V6.1 page.

By the way, the flowchart below may not reflect very late changes to the 1904-O listings by Kurt, but can be assumed to be 95% correct.
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bjsilverfox
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Re: 1904 O VAM 2A

Post by bjsilverfox » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:56 am

LateDateMorganGuy wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:58 pm
I did a die study of the 1904-O series back in 2010. But Kurt came along and jumped in and found a new die marriage or two, but also put together the highest ranking 1904-O set in the SSDC Registry. It beats mine out. In the course of Kurt putting his set together, he also had a few kills and new listings of the same die pairs along the way (checkers moving around the checker board).

When the "Group" went thru old VW1.0 to eliminate postings of Leroy's copyrighted original VAM Plates from the Encyclopedia, I encouraged Kurt to post photos of his coins and update the pages based on his superior 1904-O Reference Set. I do not remember if I made Comment 1 on the V2A page or if Kurt did. Guess it doesn't matter.

That being said, the die incest and progression is shown below. I assume Comment 1 on the V2A page was based on an EDS of the V2A. Since the reverse die was used extensively in the V2A marriage, I would change the wording to be the same as on the V6.1 page.

By the way, the flowchart below may not reflect very late changes to the 1904-O listings by Kurt, but can be assumed to be 95% correct.
Thanks, that is what I think is appropriate.

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