NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

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VAM-PIRE
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NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by VAM-PIRE » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:19 pm

I recently sent some uncirculated Guam W m/m quarters for grading. Out of 40 coins, 39 came back MS 64, 65, 66, or 67, and one was labeled UNC DETAILS-OBV DAMAGE. The coins were mailed back today, so all I have to go on now is the online photo posted by NGC, and it is blurry. (cert # 4423559-011) Dealing with an uncirculated coin, where could obv damage have occurred if not the mint? The damage looks like a die break. Would anybody besides me want to send it back to NGC for a look by their "mint error" dept? Please Advise

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CascadeChris
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by CascadeChris » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:31 pm

Probably wrapping machine damage. A crescent half or full circle scratch near the edge from being and end roll coin getting gouged by the machine that crimps the edges of the paper rolls. It happens.

...Or it could be a counting wheel mark which looks like a symmetrical patch of hairlines that only shows up at a specific angle to a light source.

I'd put money that its one of those two things.

Also, damage that happens at the mint (post strike) is still PMD damage nomatter where it happens. There was talk of clarification a few years ago to change PMD (Post Mint Damage) to PSD (Post Strike Damage) since PMD is a bit of a misnomer.
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VAM-PIRE
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by VAM-PIRE » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:35 pm

CC, Thanks for info. Is die break a possibility? That's what it looks most like, a jagged line running from coin center to near the edge at 1 oclock. NGC pics are blurry. I'll try to get some clearer ones when the coin gets here. Thanks for looking.

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CascadeChris
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by CascadeChris » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:51 pm

VAM-PIRE wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:35 pm
CC, Thanks for info. Is die break a possibility? That's what it looks most like, a jagged line running from coin center to near the edge at 1 oclock. NGC pics are blurry. I'll try to get some clearer ones when the coin gets here. Thanks for looking.
A die break is as-struck and would not details a coin. Unless maybe if the break is so severe they kick it back wanting you to send it back to them through error service.
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VAM-PIRE
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by VAM-PIRE » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:23 pm

Thanks Again, The coin will be here in a few days. We'll get a better look and go from there. Did you look at the pics on NGC?

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vampicker
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by vampicker » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:00 pm

Looked at the pics and that looks like damage. The shine from disturbed metal kinda sticks out like a sore thumb.

A die break would have roughly the same luster as the rest of the coin on an uncirculated example
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by VAM-PIRE » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:36 am

Seems like nobody wants to commit on whether or not its worth a trip to the "mint error" dept. I can see the damage in the pic, but is it "detail" or "error" damage? Anyway, thanks for the views and comments, most helpful.

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vampicker
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by vampicker » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:58 am

Maybe read what I wrote again, thought I was clear. If not. there's another term for a coin like that.
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messydesk
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by messydesk » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:29 am

While all sorts of damage can occur in the mint. Damage like that can occur when the coins are rolled, which happens outside the mint. Either way, however, damage is damage, no matter where it happens to a struck coin.
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VAM-PIRE
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by VAM-PIRE » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:19 pm

NGC could not say what caused the damage, therefore, how can they say that its detail type damage and not mint error type damage. Am I being difficult?

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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by VamHelsing » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:43 pm

In a word, yes. Doesn't matter why they can't explain it, post pics and i bet you get some answers.

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TheYokel
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by TheYokel » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:11 am

VAM-PIRE wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:19 pm
NGC could not say what caused the damage, therefore, how can they say that its detail type damage and not mint error type damage. Am I being difficult?
Because when it comes to collecting, damage is damage. Some of us look for really cool errors. Most just consider it a damaged coin, regardless. NGC/PCGS are notorious for kicking back mint error coins, even in obvious cases.

Plus NGC has a buy-back guarantee program. If they slab a questionable coin and it gets sold on the market, they are responsible for it.

Send it to ANACS and let boss man look at it if you really want to know what happened to the coin. Then send it to NGC with the label, if it gets one, to get crossed. Probably your best bet on most errors if you really want it in an NGC slab and don't want to fight for it.

Some people fight tooth and nail with multiple submissions to get a coin in plastic...
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vampicker
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by vampicker » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:48 am

If it is sent to me at ANACS it will come back with the packing slip ' Damaged outside the mint, not an error or other variety.'
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CascadeChris
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by CascadeChris » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:56 am

Here is really the only type of post-strike damage that happened at the mint I can think of that could command a premium. And it's really just due to the "neat" factor...

received_764934910570753.jpeg
received_764934910570753.jpeg (101.62 KiB) Viewed 1483 times
received_1075119382686503.jpeg
received_1075119382686503.jpeg (112.32 KiB) Viewed 1483 times
received_2192141604238148.jpeg
received_2192141604238148.jpeg (112.88 KiB) Viewed 1483 times
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CascadeChris
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by CascadeChris » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:58 pm

Oops. I put Walts pic in the wrong thread. Here ya go. Sorry about that Walt...

20190718_170500.jpg
20190718_170500.jpg (164.3 KiB) Viewed 1395 times
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VAM-PIRE
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by VAM-PIRE » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:58 pm

Well, we finally have a decent photo, thanks to CascadeChris. Thanks-a-million Chris for your time, expertise, and mostly, your patience. And thanks for all those looks and replies, which taught me the difference between a priceless mint error, and a malfunctioning coin-wrapping machine. I still think it looks cool, and for now, it will reside in my error box. I hope no one is offended by me keeping a damaged coin in the same container as my error coins. W

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TheYokel
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Re: NEED ADVICE W/ O/T

Post by TheYokel » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:05 pm

VAM-PIRE wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:58 pm
Well, we finally have a decent photo, thanks to CascadeChris. Thanks-a-million Chris for your time, expertise, and mostly, your patience. And thanks for all those looks and replies, which taught me the difference between a priceless mint error, and a malfunctioning coin-wrapping machine. I still think it looks cool, and for now, it will reside in my error box. I hope no one is offended by me keeping a damaged coin in the same container as my error coins. W
I hang on to lots of coins the fine folks here deem PMD... Always nice to have an example for next time...
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