1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

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Prider358
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1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by Prider358 » Sun May 26, 2019 11:27 am

Hi Everyone, I think I've attributed the coin correctly. Any feedback appreciated, thanks for looking.
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Prider358
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by Prider358 » Sun May 26, 2019 11:30 am

And...
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Prider358
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by Prider358 » Sun May 26, 2019 11:32 am

And......
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Prider358
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by Prider358 » Sun May 26, 2019 11:33 am

And.......
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Prider358
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by Prider358 » Sun May 26, 2019 11:34 am

Sorry for the quality of the photo's, will have to invest in better equipment when I intend to spend more free time on this site, which, at present I do not have. Cheers all.

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LorenAlbert
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by LorenAlbert » Sun May 26, 2019 12:30 pm

I agree with the 1A die pair identification. Verifying, or not, a "non displaced radial break from UNITED" might be helpful to stage the progression. This break is between the NI of UNITED as shown on the LFCPs for A3. Your photographs, in this case, are fine for identifying the die pair. The staging might be challenging.

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messydesk
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by messydesk » Sun May 26, 2019 1:26 pm

Either VAM 1A1 or 1A4. Check the A in STATES to be sure.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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Prider358
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by Prider358 » Sun May 26, 2019 5:40 pm

Hi, thanks LorenAlbert and messydesk for your feedback. I will have a look at the 1A1 and 1A4 and compare.

bobbyjenkins
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by bobbyjenkins » Sun May 26, 2019 8:52 pm

Nice pick. Love those "E" clashes.

blh74
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by blh74 » Mon May 27, 2019 1:53 am

NicEly done.

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Prider358
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by Prider358 » Mon May 27, 2019 10:36 am

I think it might be a VAM 1A3.
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Prider358
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by Prider358 » Mon May 27, 2019 10:38 am

Not sure which stage.
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LorenAlbert
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by LorenAlbert » Mon May 27, 2019 12:32 pm

For those that may be following this thread; the progression, as stated on the topic pages follows.
1A1 - 1A4 - 1A2 - 1A3 (VAM-1A1_Through_1A4 composite (severely upscaled))
This progression is staged according to analog events (not digital). Thus, there may not be consensus.

Region Between Berries and Clashed Nose Profile. Click on photograph to enlarge.
ImageImage
1A2. A break is forming between berries and profile clash.Prider358. Little to no indication of a corresponding break. Thus, as Messydesk suggested, your coin is apt to attribute as 1A1 or 1A4 (earlier than 1A2 or 1A3). Note. A radial crack is shown between NI and the rim (1A3); the question is whether to grant it a break. Best to not.

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Kurt28
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by Kurt28 » Tue May 28, 2019 5:31 am

It doesn't seem that long ago, (when I was just starting out and believed I knew almost everything) that I mocked the low ball collectors and compared them to someone that would collect firebombed automobiles.
Time has a way of expanding one's perspective.
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Prider358
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by Prider358 » Tue May 28, 2019 8:10 am

Hi LorenAlbert, thanks for your feedback, impressive and it's appreciated, thanks. As you can see from the photo's, there is a Radial crack forming. Confused now as to which VAM 1 and stage.

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LorenAlbert
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by LorenAlbert » Tue May 28, 2019 12:52 pm

Prider358 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:10 am
Hi LorenAlbert, thanks for your feedback, impressive and it's appreciated, thanks. As you can see from the photo's, there is a Radial crack forming. Confused now as to which VAM 1 and stage.
Disclaimer: I have not studied this progression for other than for this thread. I know nothing of this series. Yes, your coin has a radial crack at NI. Note, however that the comments for 1A3, the final stage, refer to a break of the radial crack as a marker. The 1A3 photograph shown below has an arrow pointing to a small break along the crack. Your coin does not appear to have this break. Cracks are not attributed and they are poisonous as stage markers.
I suspect, as MessyDesk suggested, that your coin is of the first two stages. This is why MessyDesk recommended that you check the A of States. The gouge at the A appears to distinguish 1A1 from 1A4.

1A3 (TwoHawks?). Small Break at Radial Crack. Die deterioration between Berries and Clashed Profile.
Image
An arrow indicates a small break along the radial crack at NI. Unfortunately, an arrow does not specifically indicate the break (deterioration/collapse) between the berries and the clashed nose profile. The photograph of your coin does not show this deterioration. Although perhaps due to photography, the inset appears to be of a different coin from an earlier minting. Note: Progression equals 1A1 - 1A4 - 1A2 - 1A3.

twohawks
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by twohawks » Tue May 28, 2019 2:26 pm

The VAM 1a3 has the large bump and a large break in top or the bump as well. The radial die break is displaced slightly as well but late die state VAM-1a2 coins also show the radial break but they are really not displaced. As far as difference between A VAM 1a1 and a VAM 1a4 where no bump is present, one needs to just look for the die gouge between the T&A of STATES. No gouge is a Lock VAM-1a1 If it doesn't have a gouge running out of the "R" in trust its a VAM1a1 EDS, It the coin has the gouge its a VAM 1a2 if the area has any depression or bump it doesn't and you can see polishing lines on the counter clashed area in front of the forehead you have a VAM 1a4

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TheYokel
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by TheYokel » Tue May 28, 2019 5:47 pm

twohawks wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 2:26 pm
The VAM 1a3 has the large bump and a large break in top or the bump as well. The radial die break is displaced slightly as well but late die state VAM-1a2 coins also show the radial break but they are really not displaced. As far as difference between A VAM 1a1 and a VAM 1a4 where no bump is present, one needs to just look for the die gouge between the T&A of STATES. No gouge is a Lock VAM-1a1 If it doesn't have a gouge running out of the "R" in trust its a VAM1a1 EDS, It the coin has the gouge its a VAM 1a2 if the area has any depression or bump it doesn't and you can see polishing lines on the counter clashed area in front of the forehead you have a VAM 1a4
Some extremely late die state 1A1's will show the gouge in the R in TRUST... that was the forums consensus on my 1a1 that NGC labeled a 1a2 a few weeks back.
"There is no E"...

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Prider358
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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by Prider358 » Tue May 28, 2019 5:58 pm

Hi everyone, thanks for your feedback. Being a 'Newbee', a lot of this goes straight over my head. Will take another look tomorrow, thanks all.

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Re: 1891 0. Clashed 'E'. VAM 1A..?

Post by lured_in_again » Tue May 28, 2019 7:16 pm

Just need a better photo of the TAT in STATES area - hard to tell from the original full photo on this thread, but it looks like the 1A4 gouge is not there. In that case, this coin would be a LDS 1A1 due to the tail gouge off the R in TRUST and the beveled field at rim above PLURIBUS (which is mistakenly listed under the 1A2 listing)

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