1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread (Pictures Needed! Please help!)

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
Post Reply
User avatar
Raybob15239
Posts: 552
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:52 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread (Pictures Needed! Please help!)

Post by Raybob15239 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:49 am

Mike (@collectingsince65) posted a really nice 23 P VAM 1A1 and asked about the progression. I am sure that among all of us we can assemble every stage of 1A in high grade coins to add the progression images to the 1A1 and 1A2 pages.

Here is mine (1A2):
20190313_204122.jpg
20190313_204122.jpg (185.29 KiB) Viewed 1201 times
20190313_204144.jpg
20190313_204144.jpg (123.93 KiB) Viewed 1201 times
S20190313_0001.jpg
S20190313_0001.jpg (143.38 KiB) Viewed 1199 times
S20190313_0002.jpg
S20190313_0002.jpg (201.68 KiB) Viewed 1199 times
Last edited by Raybob15239 on Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
I swear, someday I will learn how to grade Peace Dollars!

crabscrape
Posts: 357
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 10:38 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread

Post by crabscrape » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:09 am

I am sure some day we will learn them peace dollars!! :D

collectinsince65
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:55 am
Location: Florida

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread

Post by collectinsince65 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:29 pm

Great idea Raybob! Just looped mine and it appears your's is a later stage than mine. Your beauty exhibits further breaks down her neck. Mine has that breakage faintly but for the most part stops just past the jaw/neckline.
Attachments
1923 vam 1a whisker jaw obv.jpg
1923 vam 1a whisker jaw obv.jpg (112.17 KiB) Viewed 1174 times
1923 vam 1a rev.jpg
1923 vam 1a rev.jpg (114.26 KiB) Viewed 1174 times

User avatar
Raybob15239
Posts: 552
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:52 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread

Post by Raybob15239 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:39 pm

collectinsince65 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:29 pm
Great idea Raybob!
Actually, Mike, it was your idea! :lol: I just liked it! We have placeholders on the 1A1 and 1A2 pages for a discussion of the progression of the break, but there is nothing there. I don't know what we had on VW1.0 as I was not really into the Darkside when I was previously active on VAMWorld 8 years ago and VW1.0 went *poof* before I got back into the hobby last November. If we had something, maybe @messydesk saved it and can restore it, but if it is gone forever, we should be able to recreate it from our own coins. I wish I had more of these, but I bought the one I have now on a whim and bad photos on eBay about 3 months ago and really haven't looked for other stages,

Hopefully others will help out by posting their 1A1s and 1A2s so that we can recreate the progression information.
I swear, someday I will learn how to grade Peace Dollars!

User avatar
messydesk
Site Admin
Posts: 2024
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 1:57 am

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread

Post by messydesk » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:07 pm

Raybob15239 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:39 pm
Actually, Mike, it was your idea! :lol: I just liked it! We have placeholders on the 1A1 and 1A2 pages for a discussion of the progression of the break, but there is nothing there. I don't know what we had on VW1.0 as I was not really into the Darkside when I was previously active on VAMWorld 8 years ago and VW1.0 went *poof* before I got back into the hobby last November. If we had something, maybe @messydesk saved it and can restore it, but if it is gone forever, we should be able to recreate it from our own coins. ...
I have an archive of the threads, but it is as a giant JSON file. Technically, I should be able to see what the linked thread said or what picture(s) was/were linked from it, but it'll take a little work. This is one of the reasons I told people far ahead of VW 1.0 closing that if there were threads linked from VAM pages that had salient information on them with regard to those pages, that information needed to be summarized on the appropriate VAM page.

I was also looking at the die stage photos of the VAM 1A that I had on the Top 50 Peace Attribution Wizard, and I only had two. The full "whisker jaw" and an early die stage with a thin, but still pronounced, break. The development of this break will be the interesting bit.

The VAM 1A2 looks like something that never should have been listed. The first large picture on that page shows the radial die crack along with a slightly earlier stage of the whisker jaw break, which means the whisker jaw is always found with the radial crack.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

collectinsince65
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:55 am
Location: Florida

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread

Post by collectinsince65 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:12 pm

Thanks Raybob! Hope messydesk is able to retrieve images or others will post earlier die states and possibly a die state or two between yours and mine. This thread reminds me of ash's study on the scarface that I read about. His was a bit more intensive. Ain't vamming great!

User avatar
Raybob15239
Posts: 552
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:52 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread

Post by Raybob15239 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:18 am

Come on, guys... amongst us all we should be able to produce pictures of all the stages (and figure out if 1A2 should even exist!) Let's save John some work digging through the VW1.0 huge file to find what was lost in the transition! Please post your 1A1 and 1A2 pics!
I swear, someday I will learn how to grade Peace Dollars!

User avatar
bob259
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:12 pm

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread (Pictures Needed! Please help!)

Post by bob259 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:00 pm

Here's one that has the crack beyond the large break. My inventory says I have 8 of them so I may have to pull them out if someone wants to see pictures. Let me know.

A1923V1A1-3.jpg
A1923V1A1-3.jpg (174.54 KiB) Viewed 1121 times

collectinsince65
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:55 am
Location: Florida

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread (Pictures Needed! Please help!)

Post by collectinsince65 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:29 pm

Hi bob259 . Yep yours appears to have a longer break to the northwest than raybob's. Yes please if you could post any more or all that differ from these three posted that'd be great. Thank you
Mike

colwillys
Posts: 716
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:39 pm

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread (Pictures Needed! Please help!)

Post by colwillys » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:44 pm

I have 4 1923-P VAM 1A1 1A2 .. I did get 3 coins out . Hope this can help out some .
First set PCGS second set NGC third set ANACS .
Attachments
Image2856.jpg
Image2856.jpg (111.3 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
Image2857.jpg
Image2857.jpg (221.94 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
Image2858.jpg
Image2858.jpg (208.8 KiB) Viewed 1112 times

colwillys
Posts: 716
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:39 pm

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread (Pictures Needed! Please help!)

Post by colwillys » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:47 pm

PCGS and NGC pictures
Attachments
Image2851.jpg
Image2851.jpg (164.15 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
Image2852.jpg
Image2852.jpg (187.32 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
Image2855.jpg
Image2855.jpg (86.61 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
Image2853.jpg
Image2853.jpg (197.11 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
Image2854.jpg
Image2854.jpg (163.43 KiB) Viewed 1112 times

collectinsince65
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:55 am
Location: Florida

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread (Pictures Needed! Please help!)

Post by collectinsince65 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:53 pm

Hi colwillys Awesome images. Looks like you have a stage that is just past my stage on your first image. Your other image appears to be beyond raybobs stage. Progress is being made with everyones help!

indian4
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:16 am
Location: Knoxville

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread (Pictures Needed! Please help!)

Post by indian4 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:55 pm

Great discussion and tool for learning. Thanks folks.
I hate this fracking coin...for now

bhinkle
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:34 am

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread (Pictures Needed! Please help!)

Post by bhinkle » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:47 pm

Sorry it took me so long to reply, I couldn't find my 1923 Whisker Jaw vam Peace dollar.
Here are pictures of mine.
Looking at this interesting post, I'm learning that there are more, than one Whisker Jaw vams
and what to look for., I think.
I'm pretty sure, that I don't see a field dispacement, on mine, for the vam 1A2.
Mine is graded MS63 and attributed a vam 1A
Thanks, Bert
Attachments
1923 NGCMS63 JAW.jpg
1923 NGCMS63 JAW.jpg (153.65 KiB) Viewed 1072 times
1923 NGCMS63 LI.jpg
1923 NGCMS63 LI.jpg (156.91 KiB) Viewed 1072 times
1923 NGCMS63 FOREHEAD.jpg
1923 NGCMS63 FOREHEAD.jpg (104.29 KiB) Viewed 1072 times
1923 NGCMS63 LABEL.jpg
1923 NGCMS63 LABEL.jpg (69.49 KiB) Viewed 1072 times

User avatar
bob259
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:12 pm

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread (Pictures Needed! Please help!)

Post by bob259 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:15 pm

Here's the 8 I have.

AA231A-4.jpg
AA231A-4.jpg (162.76 KiB) Viewed 1048 times
AA231A-3.jpg
AA231A-3.jpg (167.76 KiB) Viewed 1048 times
AA231A-2.jpg
AA231A-2.jpg (134.04 KiB) Viewed 1048 times
AA231A-1.jpg
AA231A-1.jpg (150.18 KiB) Viewed 1048 times

User avatar
bob259
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:12 pm

Re: 1923 P VAM 1A Whisker Jaw Progression Thread (Pictures Needed! Please help!)

Post by bob259 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:19 pm

AA231A-8.jpg
AA231A-8.jpg (146.89 KiB) Viewed 1047 times
AA231A-7.jpg
AA231A-7.jpg (150.16 KiB) Viewed 1047 times
AA231A-6.jpg
AA231A-6.jpg (138.27 KiB) Viewed 1047 times
AA231A-5.jpg
AA231A-5.jpg (167.98 KiB) Viewed 1047 times

Post Reply