Addition to the 1890-S VAM-10 body count? Or a VAM-19 with undescribed PUPs?

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keilg1
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Addition to the 1890-S VAM-10 body count? Or a VAM-19 with undescribed PUPs?

Post by keilg1 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:24 pm

Appreciate your thoughts on this one. I thought it a straight VAM-10 -- far date, normal MM placement -- but see a lot more than described.

Lots of additional PUPs that I believe are significant enough of note - mostly the die scratch along the hair and into the bonnet, scratch above the LIBERTY band into the wheat leaf, and the scratches in many of the LIBERTY letters. Undescribed or photographed cracks on the reverse that do not align with described varieties.

Will need to post in multiple parts to show what I see. Appreciate any and all thoughts!

First, sorry no FCPs. I can get low quality ones done with my phone but don't think they'd help.

Far date - note there is a bit of toning in the 0 that makes it appear there are die chips, but I don't think there's any doubling or additional 'stuff' on the date to note:
1890S_3068_GRed_Date.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_Date.jpg (140.77 KiB) Viewed 496 times

OOPS, I see the picture rotated on me - hope you can see the far date even if the picture is upside down!

Next, there is an extensive scratch that begins in the har behind the ear that extends well into the bonnet:
1890S_3068_GRed_Hair-Bonnet-scratch.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_Hair-Bonnet-scratch.jpg (129.92 KiB) Viewed 496 times

I can post other pictures that capture it from a different angle but hopefully you can see it well enough here.

Next, there are significant scratches like the one above the L of LIBERTY as well as undescribed/unphotographed die scratches in the letters (I, B, E and R especially):
1890S_3068_GRed_LIBER-wheatleaf-scratches.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_LIBER-wheatleaf-scratches.jpg (124.01 KiB) Viewed 496 times

Again, I can post other pictures that show these from different angles but hopefully you can see them clearly enough.

Next, parallel scratches between the cotton bolls that are distinctly different than other obverses I've seen:
1890S_3068_GRed_Cottonboll-scratches.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_Cottonboll-scratches.jpg (150.58 KiB) Viewed 496 times

And a small, but noticeable scratch in the ear:
1890S_3068_GRed_Ear-scratch.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_Ear-scratch.jpg (129.51 KiB) Viewed 496 times

More pictures to follow...
Last edited by keilg1 on Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

keilg1
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Addition to the 1890-S VAM-10 body count? Or a VAM-19 with undescribed PUPs?

Post by keilg1 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:27 pm

Last obervse picture shows a clear hair 'D' area but scratches around the hair curl:
1890S_3068_GRed_HairD-and-curl-scratches.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_HairD-and-curl-scratches.jpg (108.3 KiB) Viewed 495 times

On the reverse, normal MM:
1890S_3068_GRed_Normal-MM.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_Normal-MM.jpg (161.8 KiB) Viewed 495 times

Clear bow:
1890S_3068_GRed_Clear-bow-normal-MM.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_Clear-bow-normal-MM.jpg (163.78 KiB) Viewed 495 times

Clear neck-wing gap:
1890S_3068_GRed_Neck-wing-gap.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_Neck-wing-gap.jpg (120.2 KiB) Viewed 495 times

Some interesting polishing lines off the bottom right feathers:
1890S_3068_GRed_Lower-body-scratches.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_Lower-body-scratches.jpg (138.19 KiB) Viewed 495 times

keilg1
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Addition to the 1890-S VAM-10 body count? Or a VAM-19 with undescribed PUPs?

Post by keilg1 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:32 pm

Potentially VERY important, looks to have doubling described on the VAM-19 of the trust:
1890S_3068_GRed_2x-ru.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_2x-ru.jpg (99.71 KiB) Viewed 495 times

Undescribed cracking along MER and RIC:
1890S_3068_GRed_MER-cracks.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_MER-cracks.jpg (114.35 KiB) Viewed 495 times
1890S_3068_GRed_RIC-cracks.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_RIC-cracks.jpg (135.43 KiB) Viewed 495 times

One more batch to follow...

keilg1
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Addition to the 1890-S VAM-10 body count? Or a VAM-19 with undescribed PUPs?

Post by keilg1 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:34 pm

Undescribed cracks from the left star to U(NITED):
1890S_3068_GRed_star-UN-cracks.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_star-UN-cracks.jpg (98.55 KiB) Viewed 495 times

Cracks along both wing tips:
1890S_3068_GRed_right-wing-crack.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_right-wing-crack.jpg (99.46 KiB) Viewed 495 times
1890S_3068_GRed_left-wing-crack.jpg
1890S_3068_GRed_left-wing-crack.jpg (125.24 KiB) Viewed 495 times

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated on this!

keilg1
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Addition to the 1890-S VAM-10 body count? Or a VAM-19 with undescribed PUPs?

Post by keilg1 » Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:15 pm

Any early 90 experts out there? I'm holding off sending a message to JR and JB until I hear your thoughts.

Thanks!

tmanhg
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Addition to the 1890-S VAM-10 body count? Or a VAM-19 with undescribed PUPs?

Post by tmanhg » Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:56 pm

I will look tonight . Gotta finish putting up corn.

keilg1
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Addition to the 1890-S VAM-10 body count? Or a VAM-19 with undescribed PUPs?

Post by keilg1 » Wed Jun 14, 2023 4:19 pm

tmanhg wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:56 pm
I will look tonight . Gotta finish putting up corn.
Thanks, @tmanhg - work should always come first! Any extra time you had to look at what you might have?

Thanks again in advance, Gary

tmanhg
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Addition to the 1890-S VAM-10 body count? Or a VAM-19 with undescribed PUPs?

Post by tmanhg » Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:03 pm

Your coin matches my VAM 19A as far as the cracks go.
If you yours does not have the die chip on the left wreath at I of UNITED then it will be a VAM 19, though a latter die state of my coin.
I have attached some pics of my VAM 19 and the pick-ups you show of yours.
The first pic is of the VAM 19A die chip..
Attachments
WIN_20230614_16_51_46_Pro.jpg
WIN_20230614_16_51_46_Pro.jpg (102.17 KiB) Viewed 423 times
WIN_20230614_16_50_10_Pro.jpg
WIN_20230614_16_50_10_Pro.jpg (144.26 KiB) Viewed 423 times
WIN_20230614_16_48_32_Pro.jpg
WIN_20230614_16_48_32_Pro.jpg (129 KiB) Viewed 423 times
WIN_20230614_16_47_32_Pro.jpg
WIN_20230614_16_47_32_Pro.jpg (129.62 KiB) Viewed 423 times
WIN_20230614_16_47_20_Pro.jpg
WIN_20230614_16_47_20_Pro.jpg (142.52 KiB) Viewed 423 times

keilg1
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Addition to the 1890-S VAM-10 body count? Or a VAM-19 with undescribed PUPs?

Post by keilg1 » Thu Jun 15, 2023 6:06 pm

Awesome and thanks. Does yours have the large scratch above the L of LIBERTY, too?

tmanhg
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Addition to the 1890-S VAM-10 body count? Or a VAM-19 with undescribed PUPs?

Post by tmanhg » Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:39 pm

No it doesn't .
But my VAM 19A does.

keilg1
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Addition to the 1890-S VAM-10 body count? Or a VAM-19 with undescribed PUPs?

Post by keilg1 » Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:54 pm

Thanks, @tmanhg, again. Mine appears to be a 'tweener' in that it has the L scratch/gouge on the obverse, some breakage along the MER on the reverse, but only a few die chips/mottling of the area where the die chip eventually forms at the I of UNITED.

Nice fun that has helped nail this as a VAM-19 'with flair.'

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